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jeff7775

Running Cubase4 Within Samplitude Via Rewire -- How?

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Hi:

I'm running a demo of Sam10 now and mightily impressed with the audio quality (like everyone), but not really blown away with the midi -- at least compared to Cubase4. I'd love to run cubase within Sam via ReWire, but I'm not seeing cubase listed in my reWire options to the left under plugins in Sam (where I DO see Waves Rewire and Melodyne listed). Hmmm...

I'm wondering -- given all the cubase converts here -- if anyone is running such a config and if they could offer some assistance. Are there some boxes I have to tic in Cubase first? Is this just a limitation of the Sam demo...?

Thanks!

Jeff

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Hi:

I'm running a demo of Sam10 now and mightily impressed with the audio quality (like everyone), but not really blown away with the midi -- at least compared to Cubase4. I'd love to run cubase within Sam via ReWire, but I'm not seeing cubase listed in my reWire options to the left under plugins in Sam (where I DO see Waves Rewire and Melodyne listed). Hmmm...

I'm wondering -- given all the cubase converts here -- if anyone is running such a config and if they could offer some assistance. Are there some boxes I have to tic in Cubase first? Is this just a limitation of the Sam demo...?

Thanks!

Jeff

I'm not sure it's possible, and I think the more you dig into the MIDI features in Samplitude, you'll find most of what you're used to seeing in Cubase.

What are you trying to do?

Greg

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Hi Greg:

You seem to be right re it's not possible. After researching the topic on Cubase forums, I think Cubase can only run in master, not slave, mode in ReWire. On top of that. neither DAW is recognizing each other in their relevant ReWire patch areas...so I'm pretty much throwing in the towel in this ring.

The following are some midi features I enjoy using in Cubase that I have not yet detected in my demo version of Sam10. Please tell me if Sam has these -- or something similar:

reversing midi

undo quantize (handy for say playing a piano part, quantizing, then unquantizing grace notes to retain natural flavor)

compress/expand and limit velocity

merge midi in loop (say you are working with a one-note triggered arp pattern that you'd like to tweak -- use this and the arp pattern will become a midi pattern)

half tempo/double tempo (so that, for example, a 2 bar pattern of steady 8th notes becomes one bar of 16ths, or 4 bars of quarters, respectively)

random notes/random velocity (further applicable withing target areas -- say between notes c3 and g4 -- fun for instant rex drum fills!)

Cubase also has a bunch of midi insert FXs like an arpegiator, midi compressor, chorder, humanisor etc that are good -- although I know there are 3rd party f/x of this nature floating around on places like KVR, etc. Just handy to have all under one hood.

Thanks for the assistance!

Jeff

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reversing midi[/quote

*Nope. Not that I can find. I just requested a mirror/flip/reverse feature.

undo quantize (handy for say playing a piano part, quantizing, then unquantizing grace notes to retain natural flavor)

*Not directly that I know of. There's always micro-quantizing a group of notes - sort of an inverse function compared to the Cubase paradigm.

compress/expand and limit velocity

*not directly, but then I do this on incoming MIDI via my Scope hardware. Velocity curves can be drawn in the editor, or typed in in the manager.

merge midi in loop (say you are working with a one-note triggered arp pattern that you'd like to tweak -- use this and the arp pattern will become a midi pattern)

*I'm testing this now using Omnisphere in a comping-type loop setup. Stay tuned.

half tempo/double tempo (so that, for example, a 2 bar pattern of steady 8th notes becomes one bar of 16ths, or 4 bars of quarters, respectively)

*no, but you can time-stretch MIDI patterns easily. I do it often.

random notes/random velocity (further applicable withing target areas -- say between notes c3 and g4 -- fun for instant rex drum fills!)

*not that I know of. Personally never have a need for this, but can see the usefulness.

Cubase also has a bunch of midi insert FXs like an arpegiator, midi compressor, chorder, humanisor etc that are good -- although I know there are 3rd party f/x of this nature floating around on places like KVR, etc. Just handy to have all under one hood.

*yes, I doubt Magix is putting much development focus on this at this time, so I'm using 3rd party plugins for chording, etc.

Good luck,

Greg

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Hmmm. So am I to understand there is no global way to velocity compress midi notes -- even after the fact, during editing, say in the piano roll? That would suck if that's the case! I mean for dense polyphonic midi performances (I do lots of piano and orchestral work) it could take hours to individually tweak controller lane vertical velocity lines, as opposed to just highlighting all notes/events, choosing a compression ration (say 75%) and voila, the midi part is compressed -- lower velocity notes are raised a few tics, higher ones decreased.

(alternatively, setting a global limit: say no velocities above 100, none below 40 -- great for eliminating midi piano "banginess" and unintended ghost notes, etc).

I just read through the Sam pdf manual and not seeing anything revealing in the midi section re this matter. Perhaps I missed something...

Thanks,

J

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Hmmm. So am I to understand there is no global way to velocity compress midi notes -- even after the fact, during editing, say in the piano roll?

You can scale velocity directly from the track settings - or even with an automation curve (for volume, if the track volume fader mode is set to velocity scaling)

Velocity compression is a two-step mechanism (scaling downwards to reduce dynamic bandwidth, then make-up gain which is a constant shift of all scaled velocity values upwards) - this can be done manually in the MIDI Editor's controller section:

Click on top of one of the selected velocity bars, then:

- Control+Mouse Move: scale all selected Velocities.

- Mouse Move: change all (relative change - all Velocities are changed by same amount)

First scaling and then relative changing offers you flexible compression/expanding of Velocities for selected notes.

BTW Shift+Mouse Move: change all values (absolute) - all Velocities get the same value.

Of course, all modes (relative, absolute, scaling) work for any controller. Scaling might be especially helpful for manipulating bi-polar controllers (e.g. PAN), i.e. when you want to "narrow" the panning.

There is also a seperate Quantize-UNDO which is independent from the global MIDI Editor UNDO function.

Greetings,

Frank

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Hi Frank:

Thanks for you suggestions. I'm still scratching my head a bit, though (perhaps on account of being a newbie to Sam and Sam speak)

1) so where precisely is the quantization undo? Can't find it...

2) so let me see if I understand this re the velocity compression-scaling you speak of: I'm in the matrix editor/piano roll, with velocity bars visible in the below controller panel, and with cntrl+mouse movmnt, and cursor on top of the bars, I bring them all down to compress the heights, right? How do I then make up the gain in one feel swoop...?

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"Quantize undo" is in the MIDI-Editor "MIDI functions" menu, and also in the VIP MIDI menu. (But only since V10.1, I think).

> and with cntrl+mouse movmnt, and cursor on top of the bars, I bring them all down to compress the heights, right? How do I then make up the gain in one feel swoop...?

To make up the gain, release the mouse and grab the velo bars at their top again, move the mouse up - but now without any modifier keys pressed.

Geretings,

Frank

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Hi Frank:

I don't see "Quantize undo" in either areas you mentioned. Perhaps a limitation of the Sam demo? Or perhaps a very recent feature...

The scaling-velocity trick you mentioned though seems to be doing the trick fairly well.

Thanks,

Jeff

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Hi Frank:

I don't see "Quantize undo" in either areas you mentioned. Perhaps a limitation of the Sam demo? Or perhaps a very recent feature...

The scaling-velocity trick you mentioned though seems to be doing the trick fairly well.

Thanks,

Jeff

The demo is not the V10.1 (I thinck it's V10.0.1 or V10.0.2 <_< )

To have the last version you should try the Samplitude 10 DLV from here

JM

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Thanks JM.

Well, I just ordered my copy of Sam pro 10 so I have officially made the plunge!

There's one born every minute :rolleyes:

Congratulations and welcome aboard!

Greg

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Thanks Greg.

And may I say that I'm receiving a fine first impression of the world Of SAM based not only on the great audio but upon the experienced, intelligent and good-natured vibe of this forum.

Unlike the Steinberg forums where they are all animals! :rolleyes:

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Hello again:

well, I'm finally working on a fully-functioning (ie, non-demo) version of Samplitude Pro 10, have just ran the 10.1 patch and am still not seeing the Quantization Undo function in either of the midi drop down menus mentioned above. Hmmm:(

Also, while the scaling trick mentioned above is one way of going about midi compression, my impression thus far is it's sort of a ham-fisted and unpredictable way of going about this -- certainly when dealing with velocity sensitive, polyphonic material like a piano part. I think the developers here should look into incorporating a midi compression and/or velocity limits function like most other DAWs nowadays (Cubase, Logic, the latest version of PT, sonar, etc).

Just my 2 pesos.

J

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In the VIP arranger, look out for the "MIDI" > "Reset Quantization" menu command.

post-710-1225271811_thumb.jpg

This function is also available in the MIDI Editor (applying to all selected notes - or all notes if no notes are selected).

post-710-1225271857_thumb.jpg

For the next major version, further velocity tools are definitely planned.

Greetings,

Frank

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Hi Frank:

Ok, that works. Initially you said Quantize Undo and I was scratching my head as to where one finds this feature. Reset Quantization works fine.

Looking forward to Sam's future upgraded midi functions. (One design option is to do what the Digidesign folk probably did for the most recent version of PT: open up a copy of Logic and/or Cubase and "creatively interpolate" some of the more advanced midi functions that we midi geeks need and love:)

Thanks again,

J

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