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Help Working With Multitrack Drums


poofox
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hey there, im trying to get a workflow going that i have in my head but no program ive tried seems conducive to this yet... basically i want to record improv jams and then chop them up into arrangements later. for this to work the way im thinking i need to be able to easily take sections of material that may well span multiple tracks, like multitrack drum parts, and keep them organized somewhere by name. im coming from writing songs tracker style with individual patterns and then sequencing the patterns, but now i want to do it with live audio. how can i achieve this? im not totally clear on what "gluing" is for but that seems to be the way to keep the drum tracks together. so how can i put them somewhere with a name so i can treat them as a part i will reuse and perhaps modify throughout the song (modify collectively as well as individually). it just kills workflow for me to be searching through the song for a certain section so i can copy it and then having to manually change each instance of it if i want some basic beat to be a bit different throughout, say. id just like to have it all accessible from the manager somehow, each loop i make. kind of like in ableton how you can just drag a section to the browser and it saves a version there, except even there you cant seem to make loops that span tracks.

can objects span tracks? what about loops? also, is there a shortcut key to locate an object in the vip from the object manager and vice versa?

any help would be appreciated, thanks.

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OK....

You should try loop-recording/'comping' using maybe punchin/out markers or just setup a range/region with the mouse and turn on loop button in the transport.

Open up take manager (manager button).

Arm your track(s) to record (works best using different channel I/O's from your hardware interface)

Then when you're done recording, you can double-click through your takes and pick best takes, sections of takes, etc.

Objects don't span tracks unless you copy them - at least that's what I think you're referring to.

Other than that, in Live you can have one 'cell' looping while other cells or scenes are playing back, while in Samplitude you can do comping or lay down a bunch of objects and jam over the whole range. I personally prefer Samplitude's method (which Ableton sort of copied IMO).

Objects can be found in the object manager. Objects can be loops if that's how you set it up - such as working in an 8-bar range.

NONE of this functionality is really possible in Live without some workaround, and the 'cells' in Live are similar to Samplitude's objects, accept you can do a lot more with Samplitude's objects - especially if one object IS a multi-track MIDI object for example, it could essentially be one whole song. (also ctrl+play solo-plays objects, which is handy).

You should check out Kraznet's videos on Samplitude.com to get more acquainted with what Samplitude can do with re: to comping, etc..

Greg

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im not sure what you mean by "comping". so dont know which video to look for. but what i mean about objects spanning tracks is that say a four mic drum recording can be considered a complete unit with one name. first i would cut pieces out of the jam and turn them into loops, or patterns. Each pattern would then be referenced by one name and always include all the associated files. this way i can see a list of patterns down in the browser and select them to arrange the song manually. but i should be able to select each pattern after ive arranged the song and have the option to either edit all copies of the pattern throughout the arrangement, or treat it as a new copy of the pattern. make sense? can i drag a group of objects spanning several tracks into the browser and have it treat the group as a single entity and all instances globally reflect any changes to the pattern?

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comping is basically recording with loop turned on and recording take over take in layers, and then going back and picking the best take (or section of take, etc.)

In Samplitude everything in the track is an object, so you wouldn't even have to drag takes down into a browser. Instead you just open the manager (like a browser) where you would already find the takes/objects/tracks, etc.

loops can be created by range, object, track, etc.

Good videos to watch at the Samplitude website:

Fundamentals

Working with objects

Take composer

Using Ranges

lots of flexibility.

have fun,

Greg

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thanks for the efforts guys, but none of this is really helping me to do what im trying to do, which is a specific way of working. maybe its just not possible.

its simple though, i just want to pull loops from improvised audio, organize them somewhere convenient for quick recall by name when creating a new loop-based arrangement, and have any changes i make to instances of those loops apply globally. and then i just need a way for these loops to span tracks, as in the case of a multi-mic drum recording. is any of this possible? am i even making any sense?

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thanks for the efforts guys, but none of this is really helping me to do what im trying to do, which is a specific way of working. maybe its just not possible.

its simple though, i just want to pull loops from improvised audio, organize them somewhere convenient for quick recall by name when creating a new loop-based arrangement, and have any changes i make to instances of those loops apply globally. and then i just need a way for these loops to span tracks, as in the case of a multi-mic drum recording. is any of this possible? am i even making any sense?

Yes, I've described it for you - but probably not clear enough.

options:

  • Pick a range, and the range automatically ends up in the range manager (under manager button) - this can become your loop. It's already there, you don't have to drag it over.
  • ctrl+l after highlighting a range instantly creates a loop that can be dragged acid-pro style across the rest of a track (extended off the original object).
  • highlight a range in your track object, and ctrl+c copy, and ctrl+v paste in maybe a neighboring track - then go to object manager (under manager button), and name the object/loop, archive it, or do whatever you'd like.
  • After placing these objects in tracks, you can shift+select or (itemized) ctrl+select objects, make changes in object editor, and hit 'apply all' button for all the objects to adopt the changes.
  • multiple objects on one track can be glued to become one track object.

There are several ways to do what you want, you'll have to jump in and try out the different approaches.

Greg

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i think we are still misunderstanding eachother. ive been playing around with this for most of today and watching videos etc etc. but i still have no way of organizing my loops for later recall. i cant drag objects or ranges from the manager into the arrangement so i suppose thats not what the managers are for.

this is what my problem is: im listening to a long recording of multitrack drums, 3 tracks. they are grouped together already since i recorded them simultaneously with different mikes. as i listen i cut out the poor sections and turn the good ones into loops. i need to put these loops somewhere for access when i go to arrange the song. a range is not useful because the sections will not remain in position. i know i can loop these now but i still have to return to wherever one instance is located and copy it over to wherever i want to reuse it. this is really impractical since i have to remember to set markers all the time to return to where i was working or else im quickly losing my place. if there was a list of groups like there is a list of objects and i could drag those groups by name from wherever they were organized, i could create a collection of loops that i could sort through and drag into the project when necessary. nothing described so far seems to allow me to do anything like this. i guess i can find a new way to work but i was really hoping i wouldnt have to disrupt 10 years of established workflow methods for the added flexibility of a new program.

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OK, then if the managers aren't working as expected, try just opening a second 4-track blank VIP, (hit enter key to tile the active and new VIP), and copy your objects into there. You can maintain the group, name the VIP as desired, and continue archiving projects that way for later recall.

Something like playlists might also work, but Samplitude doesn't have this (yet), it's still only a Sequoia thing.

Nevertheless, between the manager and building up extra VIPs, I think you'll eventually find a way to get it to work how you like.

Greg

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ok this should be really simple to find out but i cant! i have a short section of chopped audio spanning several tracks. its immediately surrounded by empty space and then other objects. so where is the command to manually crossfade the whole section? seems the only way is to have auto crossfade on and then close the gaps. but i have to make sure to unselect the outside objects or they are expanding out into the other objects. in cubase you could select a section and give a crossfade command. it would typically ignore the larger sections of empty space and just crossfade the selected objects with eachother provided they were close together (like < .5 sec or something). thats how im used to working.

also, is there a way to slide crossfades around as a whole without resizing each end independently? i'd like the crossfade to act like an object in this respect when i click on it. i have to do this a lot since the quantizer is so inefficient and its an extra pain when each crossfade edit is several mouseclicks, zooms etc instead of one. thanks!

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