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Why Samplitude 9 Over Sawstudio? Can Anyone Explain The Diff?


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I was reading on a Cubase thread where someone said to take a look at SawStudio since SX3.1 is dropped (niiiiiiccce one Yamaberg) :)

So I did for a quick minute. :D

So far I DON'T like the GUI in SawStudio (looks like a comic book to me), but then again my mom told me "Jamie... never judge a book by it's cover" :D

Well... I think it was my mom who told me :P

So if anyone could post a bit about SawStudio and how it compares to Samp 9 that would be great!

Jamie B)

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So far I DON'T like the GUI in SawStudio (looks like a comic book to me)

I did the same and decided that this was a deal breaker. After all, you do spend a lot of time sitting there looking at the GUI. In great contrast, Samplitude looks great; it doesnt make me feel queasy -- and it works great. This doesnt mean to say that there are not bugs -- they come free with all software!

:):D:P david

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So far I DON'T like the GUI in SawStudio (looks like a comic book to me)

I did the same and decided that this was a deal breaker. After all, you do spend a lot of time sitting there looking at the GUI. In great contrast, Samplitude looks great; it doesnt make me feel queasy -- and it works great. This doesnt mean to say that there are not bugs -- they come free with all software!

:P:DB) david

So, Marvel Comics made the GUI? :D:)

OK... let's say we could deal with that! :D

Now what about features and sound compared to Samplitude?

Jamie B)

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So if anyone could post a bit about SawStudio and how it compares to Samp 9 that would be great!

My main beef with sawstudio is that it's impressively non-future proof. It's written by a single guy in assembler - one step up from machine code, basically. Not even C (which is a respectable and noble language, even today I might add :D ), which would at least make sense if you were going for the bare-metal approach to DAW programming. Anyway, point is that development is very slow due to this choice, and adding support for modern fast-evolving techs becomes harder over time. Add to that a very secretive development process and a lack of insight into the competition.

It's kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket and then giving the basket to the guy wearing roller skates while standing on top of a flag pole during a rather hefty breeze.

There's just too many single points of failure for me to be comfortable with, and to not question the common sense of from a developer's perspective.

I know people applaud the "sound" of sawstudio but this is ASFAIK years-old comparisons reiterated by enthusiastic long-time users (and despite nulltests proving there's no such thing as ITB summing, this keeps coming up). There's definitely a big myth about SAW, about how because it's relatively pricey, different, and all hardcore assembler it must mean it's the best tool for the job. When it came out it probably was, hands-down maybe even, but things have changed since then (for the better).

Having evaluated it for a few weeks a year or so ago, I just came out feeling it was a slowly withering option with a severe case of NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. This leaves many holes in workflow, features and user interfaces that've already been solved by more agile technologies - or could/will be in relatively short order.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, but I think "futureproofness" and code agility is an important part of choosing a workstation to invest alot of time and effort in.

PS. And I hear Marvel did the GUI. :)

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So if anyone could post a bit about SawStudio and how it compares to Samp 9 that would be great!

My main beef with sawstudio is that it's impressively non-future proof. It's written by a single guy in assembler - one step up from machine code, basically. Not even C (which is a respectable and noble language, even today I might add :P ), which would at least make sense if you were going for the bare-metal approach to DAW programming. Anyway, point is that development is very slow due to this choice, and adding support for modern fast-evolving techs becomes harder over time. Add to that a very secretive development process and a lack of insight into the competition.

It's kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket and then giving the basket to the guy wearing roller skates while standing on top of a flag pole during a rather hefty breeze.

There's just too many single points of failure for me to be comfortable with, and to not question the common sense of from a developer's perspective.

I know people applaud the "sound" of sawstudio but this is ASFAIK years-old comparisons reiterated by enthusiastic long-time users (and despite nulltests proving there's no such thing as ITB summing, this keeps coming up). There's definitely a big myth about SAW, about how because it's relatively pricey, different, and all hardcore assembler it must mean it's the best tool for the job. When it came out it probably was, hands-down maybe even, but things have changed since then (for the better).

Having evaluated it for a few weeks a year or so ago, I just came out feeling it was a slowly withering option with a severe case of NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. This leaves many holes in workflow, features and user interfaces that've already been solved by more agile technologies - or could/will be in relatively short order.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, but I think "futureproofness" and code agility is an important part of choosing a workstation to invest alot of time and effort in.

PS. And I hear Marvel did the GUI. :D

Thanks Unempty for your reply! :D

BTW - what is "ASFAIK" and "ITB" summing? :)

Thanks again!

Jamie B)

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BTW - what is "ASFAIK" and "ITB" summing?
ASFAIK = As Far As I Know

ITB = In The Box (mixing) ... as opposed to OTB (Out of The Box) mixing, where you use an external analog mixer/summing device.

Thanks again!
Don't mention it. Just figured I'd give a different perspective than the more common "A/B sounds better".

Oh, one thing that Samplitude could learn from SAWstudio, BTW, is the workspace concept, where you can snapshot views, window positions and track visibility. That'd be a sweet addition to Samp.

I'm not sure, but from what I've heard, automation is quite solid and well done in SAW as well. Automation preset "brushes" is a neat concept. Automation editing in Samp could definitely be improved, I think, but it's largely workflow/ui issues that can be dealt with.

Cheers,

-d

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Oh, one thing that Samplitude could learn from SAWstudio, BTW, is the workspace concept, where you can snapshot views, window positions and track visibility. That'd be a sweet addition to Samp.

I'm not sure, but from what I've heard, automation is quite solid and well done in SAW as well. Automation preset "brushes" is a neat concept. Automation editing in Samp could definitely be improved, I think, but it's largely workflow/ui issues that can be dealt with.

Cheers,

-d

I thought the workspace concept in SAWstudio and the automation preset "brushes" was pretty cool as well. :D

One last question (if I may)... The speed of SAWstudio. Is it faster than other programs? If so... is it because of the code is written to bypass windows OS or something? In the video demonstrations the developer talks about how all the editing is done in "Real Time" etc.

I remembering reading about other platforms that bypassed windows (at least I THINK I do anyway.) It was because of this that these other programs worked more in real time.

Does that make any sense? :)

Jamie :P

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One last question (if I may)... The speed of SAWstudio. Is it faster than other programs? If so... is it because of the code is written to bypass windows OS or something? In the video demonstrations the developer talks about how all the editing is done in "Real Time" etc.
Yes, they've "bypassed" windows by writing everything themselves, down to the mouse-handling routines and how buttons work. Is it "faster"? Maybe, but it probably doesn't really matter in the end. Samplitude graphics might flicker when updating (where they're not double-buffered), which might make it seem slower, but importantly the engine itself runs like clockwork (literally).

Many things you can do in real-time in Samplitude as well, like drop markers, cut media and even do edits. It's just not advertised loudly - very typical for nifty Samplitude features, BTW. They're there, you just have to find them. :)

I get the feeling that SAW could almost do better if they wrapped a minimal core OS around it and made it a standalone operating system, tightly integrated with some specific hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll end up being bought by one of the big boys (sony perhaps) to compete directly with SSL's newly acquired Soundscape.

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One last question (if I may)... The speed of SAWstudio. Is it faster than other programs? If so... is it because of the code is written to bypass windows OS or something? In the video demonstrations the developer talks about how all the editing is done in "Real Time" etc.
Yes, they've "bypassed" windows by writing everything themselves, down to the mouse-handling routines and how buttons work. Is it "faster"? Maybe, but it probably doesn't really matter in the end. Samplitude graphics might flicker when updating (where they're not double-buffered), which might make it seem slower, but importantly the engine itself runs like clockwork (literally).

Many things you can do in real-time in Samplitude as well, like drop markers, cut media and even do edits. It's just not advertised loudly - very typical for nifty Samplitude features, BTW. They're there, you just have to find them. :)

I get the feeling that SAW could almost do better if they wrapped a minimal core OS around it and made it a standalone operating system, tightly integrated with some specific hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll end up being bought by one of the big boys (sony perhaps) to compete directly with SSL's newly acquired Soundscape.

Thanks for the info Unempty! It really helps me understand things better! :D

Jamie :P

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So if anyone could post a bit about SawStudio and how it compares to Samp 9 that would be great!

My main beef with sawstudio is that it's impressively non-future proof. It's written by a single guy in assembler - one step up from machine code, basically. Not even C (which is a respectable and noble language, even today I might add :) ),

Speaking of codes... what code does Samplitude, Cubendo, Sonar, PT, Logic use?

Jamie :D

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Speaking of codes... what code does Samplitude, Cubendo, Sonar, PT, Logic use?

Uh, I am afraid you are about to fall fatal for the "native Assembler code is better" blurb from the SAW aficionados.

All the apps above are different. And the difference is not coming from the development environment the developers use. Besides that, the code that is created in the dev environment is not the code that is executed on the user side. It experiences one ore more transformations until it becomes an executable as you may use it.

I wonder why you would care. That's comparable as asking "what compressor was used on Song XXX" and judge from there if the music was good. As any other engineer devs use tools and we should not judge their work by the tools they use but by what they make from it.

Cheers,

S

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Speaking of codes... what code does Samplitude, Cubendo, Sonar, PT, Logic use?

I wonder why you would care. That's comparable as asking "what compressor was used on Song XXX" and judge from there if the music was good. As any other engineer devs use tools and we should not judge their work by the tools they use but by what they make from it.

Just curious Sebastian... that's all! :D

Uh, I am afraid you are about to fall fatal for the "native Assembler code is better" blurb from the SAW aficionados.

Naw... I know it may have it's pluses... but like all the other stuff you mentioned above... I'd rather move on the new technology!

Besides... with the new Core 2 Duo, and Core 2 Extreem, I think Samplitude and the rest of the daws will run fast enough! :P

Not to mention that Wierd looking GUI!!!!! :)

Best,

Jamie

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I know it may have it's pluses

I have never heard that being confirmed from someone who had responsibility for a substantial software project.

That's IMO complete blurb thrown into a peer group that will do everything for the sound, even cutting wood in certain moon phases. There is no development platform that can guarantee optimised performance on every CPU the user may opt for. Using industry standards at least gives satisfactory performance for the commercially relevant ones.

Cheers,

S

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